What does representation mean to you?
Representation, to me, means showing the true values that a culture holds - for example, there are a lot of tropes and prejudices that each Asian culture may have (I’ll speak specifically to Asian culture) - because they each have a different set of cultural values. Family-centered. But then you look at all countries, of course Jewish families are very family-centered and so are Latinx cultures, they are family-centric. So that is a kind of global ideal, so how is it any special? I guess it gets special when you’re talking about representation- how do they express that value? Whether it's honoring ancestors with certain ceremonies on their birthdays, new year, or death. As well as what they think of when they say “to honor the family name.” That means something different within different cultures.
In media, it’s accurately portraying those and making sure you don’t go into a caricature of that culture.
I remember someone saying specificity makes it easier for something to be universally relatable, so that’s a good point.
Why does representation matter? Why is it important to represent these different cultures on screen?
I think to offer the wealth of experience to those outside of the cultures. You want diversity of content. You don’t want to see the same idea, the same love story between boy-meets-girl, or girl-meets-girl, or all these different combinations. You want to see the diversity of the human condition, of human connection and relationships.
It’s the same reason why you wouldn’t want to eat the same thing every day.
What role does representation play when you’re choosing projects to work on or to produce, especially as someone who is part of the AAPI community yourself?
I make it a point to have diversity on my crews, but just because I have a diverse crew, it doesn’t mean anything unless those crew members are free to express their creative and personal opinions on set. I could hire a diverse crew and tell them to shut up and do what I want, which to me, cancels out why you would want to hire a diverse crew. You want someone on set to call out the creative and say “hey, that would never happen in an Asian household.”
[jokes]Like “The father would never say ‘I love you!’ out loud.” Something like that. Or, of course, there’s a plastic bag full of plastic bags under the kitchen sink if you are set dressing an asian american household.
Joking aside, it’s highly important, especially when dealing with commercials, if you’re trying to have your brand and message appeal to everyone, as many potential customers as possible, you want to be authentic and genuine in your message, as well as the worldview that you are projecting in your TV spot or radio commercial. Those are short, so you only have a limited amount of time to express all that. And it can’t be everything. …everywhere. all at once. [laughs] 👀
But you can, when you’re specific about something, that can touch on a universal note that maybe someone will learn something from that. Either someone will be familiar with it and be like “aha!” or someone will be unfamiliar and be exposed to a new idea. So you gotta make sure that idea is authentic.
How do you make sure your crew and people working behind the camera feel comfortable expressing their thoughts?
I make it a point to talk to everyone on the set. I don’t just talk to the above-the-line people, I talk to everyone. I make sure they know they can ask me questions or text me prior or during the shoot. And it does take time. You have to develop these relationships. If you’re on set with someone for their first time, they’re not going to bring it up to me. So, I make sure I’m loyal and that I hire the same people that are good and then develop these relationships with the key roles.
A specific example would be I ordered lunch for a crew that had different options that I could think of and I made a point to ask the crew about their different dietary needs and restrictions. But I missed one because we had a last-minute replacement because of COVID. And that guy was a specific kind of vegan. So, I didn’t eat lunch that day. I jumped in my car - I asked him what he wanted to eat and I went to that restaurant to pick up his food for him because I wanted to make sure he felt heard.
Then the next time I hired him, I had a meal ready for him and he was more open to me during that shoot about how things were running on set. He could talk to me about the load-in, load-out situation and not feel like he just had to make things happen. He could ask questions because he could see that I respected him as a person.
What is a movie or show you first remember identifying with or feeling seen by?
The earliest I can remember is Jackie Chan in Rumble in the Bronx. When I saw the trailer for it on TV, I was like “wait, this isn’t like an old-school martial arts movie with people in robes or with long white beards doing Kung Fu finger push-ups. This was a guy in jeans and a tank top doing flips on cars.” I had seen Jackie Chan before in martial arts movies but this was my first exposure to him on American TV in between American commercials. And I remember my brother and I watching it at the same time and jumping up and being like “oh my gosh, that’s awesome! We have to go see that!” There was a lot of pride seeing that happen. Seeing a person with almost-like superhero powers fighting for justice in the Bronx was amazing.
Something that I think a lot of AAPI organizations and figures are intentional about is making sure that AAPI doesn’t become hyper-focused on East Asian cultures. We are not a monolith. There is diversity even within the AAPI community. What are your thoughts on on-screen representation making sure we honor the diversity within these communities?
A reference point is some of the criticism that Crazy Rich Asians (2018, dir. Jon Chu) faced when casting was first announced. A lot of the cast were of East Asian descent and there were criticisms that the characters did not accurately represent the ethnic makeup of Singapore.
Some studio exec definitely heard that criticism and ignored it, but you also have to be true to the script and the story. You cannot please everyone when you’re making your art. Specific is global. If you try to appease everyone, you end up with some weird, bland thing.
How do you solve the problem? It depends on context. Is it to check a box or hit some sort of quota? If so, that may not be a true representation of what the needs are.
I guess it is broadening your network. Because I am of East Asian heritage, a lot of my community and network reaches into East Asian culture. It is more effort for me to look into South Asian or Pacific Islander communities, but I’ll have to seek them out and that's the work that we all have to put into our lives. It's not going to happen organically because despite American culture being hailed as "the melting pot" there are systemic racial/ethnic issues that America has been struggling with since the founding of the nation. There are invisible lines that still hold us back from becoming truly united.